Milicent Bulstrode's Weight: Canon or Fanon?

[lightofdaye]

Okay so I've seen this a few places. Most recently reading some of writcraft's meta, though the actual point of that article is far grander than the bit I'm going to nitpick (asa nerd arguing over minutia is pretty much my stock in trade) as part of a larger point she wrote:

When I write Harry without his glasses, slim down Millicent, place queer characters in a world free from oppression, write Blaise as Draco’s side-kick or erase Ginny because it’s bothersome backstory the fic could do without, then am I guilty of precisely the same kind of marginalisation I vehemently oppose in original fiction?

So here and elsewhere, a few sign-up exchange forms come to mind, there's the idea that canonically Millicent was fat and thus slimming her down would be bad thing.

Firstly, I think I missed that bit. I remember Millicent being described as like a troll, which to me mean big and strong. In a tall, broad shouldered muscular way not fat. Not as overweight or fat. But I could be wrong... (too lazy to get out Chamber of secrets. but not to post this, go figure)

Second, lots of characters, and Slytherins in particular have unflattering descriptions, yet because I'm writing smut, that gets pretty much ignored. I mean if I were inclined to justify it I could say that in canon hary doesn't like these people and its from his point of view, hence the descriptions. In fics I write he probably wants to bang them and thus is more charitable.

When I started writing this it was mostly 'is milicent really canonically fat?' but I seemed to have wandered into the larger question of 'how much am i allowed to change their descriptions for smut fic?'

Comments

[torino10154]

Interesting question.

From Wiki: Millicent was black-haired and had a heavy, jutting jaw. She was described by Harry Potter as being "no pixie." She had a large, square build that allowed her to physically intimidate smaller people, and was bigger than Harry Potter in their second year. Ron Weasley once remarked that Millicent was "ugly," and Harry thought that she looked like a hag he'd seen pictured in Holidays with Hags. We are given no non-Gryffindor opinions of her physical beauty or lack thereof.

Now, being bigger than Harry at age 12 tells us absolutely nothing. He was small and many girls have started growing and the boys haven't. The "no pixie" can be looked at in two ways--yes, she's not a skinny girl, but as you say, just a big girl. OR it could be JKR's euphemism for actually meaning she's truly overweight. TBH, I think fandom has embraced her as the one overweight character that we know of and therefore just don't want her to be made thin. Representation for the people who aren't built like models.

As for the descriptions-she's called ugly. Surely that's up for discussion. One man's trash is another man's treasure after all. Making her a femme fatale on the other hand would seem not true to her character.

So if I was writing her, I would neither describe the rolls of belly fat NOR talk about seeing her rib cage. I likely wouldn't put her in a skin tight dress or on 5 inch heels, just because I do feel like she's a little less glamorous, between her broad build and so called "ugly" appearance.

As you know, I read a lot of Snarry and that's relevant because there are a million ways to make Severus more attractive than he was in canon but the ones that ring truest to me are the ones where Harry realizes he's not going to win any beauty contests but realizes there is more to him than greasy hair and a snarky attitude. So unless someone really likes heavy girls (which can appear to be a fetish if one isn't careful), again I don't see the point in getting too detailed. If you're writing Pansy you're not going to say she's got a face like a pug, you know?

Oh, and Hermione said Pansy was "thicker than a concussed troll" so maybe that's where you got the thick troll thing from?

[lightofdaye]

Oh Awesome. thanks for digging up that description for me. Hmm, hag like not troll like. Man, my memory for these details is never as good as I think it is! lol, which sort of brings me back to main point. There's little point saying she's 'canonically' something when there's such room for interpretation. I'm mentally putting fat Millicent firmly in my fanon column but I'm pernickety about such things. I totally think you're right about fandom wanting unmodel like representation.

I definitely get what you're saying regarding Snarry and it#s all points of view right? Though I do recall in my first fanfic I went to great lengths to reinterpret 'face like a pug' to be a good thing. lol. And of course there's always the option of saying they grew into features that didn't suit them as a child.

[torino10154]

Regarding your last point, I think a lot of early fic had people explaining away the flaws as somehow a good thing. And a lot of those are pretty hilarious now.

One last thing though. If JKR had wanted to say Millicent was overweight, how do you think she'd have described her? There's no way Ron was going to say she was a 'fat cow'. The bit with her being "not a pixie" was that she, Crabbe, and Goyle wouldn't fit in a bathroom stall together. Then again, I think of those guys as being pretty big so it would be curious to look at their actual canon descriptions as well.

Mentally I'm OK with having her be the single overweight girl at Hogwarts, rather like Dumbledore is the one gay character in the series. :P But I do think there's a bit more room for interpretation--unlike Blaise's skin color.

[lightofdaye]

I'll have to dig that bit out when I get home and post it for a laugh. :)

Well I don't know. JKR hardly shied away from saying people were overweight if she wanted to. options range from as Mrs Weasley was described (dumpy, plump etc) to Fudge (portly) all the way up to Dudley. (wider than he was taller, weight of a killer whale etc).

as an aside I'm a bit dubious you can fit three people of any size in a bathroom stall with a cauldron tbh.

Oh, I'm okay with her being written as overweight. I'm okay with her being written as overweight. (Mentally, I always think of Hannah Abbot being on the heavier side with no evidence at all) and I'm okay with people requesting that she be written that way. I'm just eyebrow raising slightly when people say 'because that's canon.'

I'm just really nit-picking the definition of 'definitely unarguably canon' that I would mean when I say Canon. As opposed to fanon or head!canon that's reasonable and has a real basis in canon.

[nutmeg-44.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with most, if not all, of this and I do see Hannah Abbott as a little more pleasantly plump as well.

[nia_kantorka]

When I started writing this it was mostly 'is milicent really canonically fat?' but I seemed to have wandered into the larger question of 'how much am i allowed to change their descriptions for smut fic?'

Very good question. Make her recognisable. In a Hogwarts fic I wounldn't change their character/appearance too much from canon. But as most our fics tend to show the characters at the age of 16 or older, they have grown up (and out of their teenager bodies). So, why shouldn't your Millicent be a strong and pretty woman? Even if she's probably still more crouchy than others. :)

[lightofdaye]

I'm not actually planning to write millicent fic, at the moment. But you're right people change from 12 to late teens/early twenties, just naturally before thinking about diets and exercise to intentionally lose weight.

I think I'd still try to describe her as big and strong. The word statuesque springs to mind.

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

I always envisioned canon!Millicent as being stout, i.e. having a bulky and masculine build. Whether or not you consider that "fat" is a matter of interpretation, I guess. "Fat" isn't a very descriptive term, is it? It could mean anything from slightly plump to morbidly obese, with millions of different body shapes in between. But we're talking about an adolescent. I think there's plenty of room for interpretation in regards to how any of Harry's generation would look as adults.

yay,Tam! Yay!

[lightofdaye]

Yeah that's pretty much what I had in mind description wise. And it is a matter of interpretation, I don't midn that interpretation but I get up tight annoyed when people declare their inferences canon.

I remember I once had someone tell me Katie was canonically lesbian because of her interaction with Leanne in Half-Blood prince...

[nutmeg-44.livejournal.com]

In my head!canon, Millicent would more closely resemble a girl who plays rugby rather than a girl who is a figure skater or a ballerina just as far as body type goes. I wouldn't say fat, just larger than the average girl with good muscle mass. That being said, I don't ever picture Millicent as ugly because I am sceptical of Gryffindor descriptions of their less-liked Slytherin counterparts. I just assume there is a fair amount of bias there.

[lightofdaye]

I agree with this. Especially with the bias bit. The books are from Harry's own point of view of course. And he Does Not Like Slytherins (mostly for good reason though...)

[writcraft]

Really interesting question and thank you for reading my meta :D

Due to the fact Millicent is the only female of the Trio gen described in ways which might imply she is heavy set and physically larger than other classmates - like Tam my head canon for her tends towards stocky - I suppose she was the obvious example to use for the point I wanted to make, quite possibly influenced by my own head canon for Millicent's physicality.

I could have used a number of other examples which may have been more accurate from a canon perspective to illustrate the point I really wanted to make, which was to question (in the broader context of that particular post about creator responsibility) whether there is a responsibility for female writers to give conscious thought, when describing female characters, to how far those characters reinforce the unrealistic and oppressive standard of beauty so often imposed on women by the media.

I didn't intend to imply that slimming down Millicent is a bad thing because it's not canon. I fully appreciate an adolescent physique will change as a character ages and the weight of characters will fluctuate, and as noted above the canon descriptions hardly paint a clear picture.

The point was simply that by embracing canon or secondary canon allusions to Millicent's physicality as opposed to dismissing them, writers (or artists) can call into question conventional standards of 'beauty'. When portraying female characters in fanworks there is an opportunity to be had to challenge the paradigm of the 'ideal woman' and call into question the value society places on what it deems to be 'attractive'.

I wonder if when people make those requests in exchanges, it's driven by some of the issues above as opposed to a desire for strict canon compliance. Fan communities tend to want to see representation of characters that might otherwise lack visibility in their canon. In fan communities with a gender bias towards female or female identified creators, the request to portray a canon female character physically one way or another might be less about the giftee wanting to see a strict adherence to canon, and more about a desire to see women represented in a way which is authentic and which celebrates all kinds of body types.

Does that make any sense? I may very well have gone off on a tangent here, apologies if so :D

[lightofdaye]

Oh hey. I wasn't sure if it was too late to comment on the meta post. It was very thought provoking. I appreciated that you set it up that multiple view points were explored and given equal weighting. In regards to the bit I quoted. I don't think all fics can or should be expected to address all social ills. Take Blaise for example. more poc characters with focus would be cool but Can black people no longer be sidekicks at all? Isn't that just doing the same thing in a different way? (you are black therefore you must fulfil x role)

Anyway, I went off an tangent myself, and as I said this wasn't really supposed to be commentary on your meta post in particular. Now you say about your own headcanon having Millicent as stocky/strong, I realise 'slim down' could apply there as well. So I'm wondering if I've just completely got the wrong end of the stick.

I definitely imagine you're right that when people ask for this sort of thing they're more concerned with 'non-conventional body types are cool' and less with 'strict adherence to canon'. And that's cool and I like that people request what they want.

I'll admit I probably fall into writing conventional beauty. people either get to be petite and perky or curvy and busty, lol. Though I'm not sure what's wrong with that either given it's basically just porn with a bit of character. But nothing wrong with doing it differently either.

No need apologies. Very interesting. :)