The Writing of Longer Fic!

[lightofdaye]

So as I mentioned in my 2013 Retrospective. A lot of what I wrote last year was drabbles and flash fic. The longest I think was Smutty claus fic at about 6K and I think in the end alot of my work follows the same basic formula. Simple set up > banging > punchline denouncement. And in the case of drabbles a lot of the first and last bits go by the board. Even the longer fics, the result is mainly longer set up. but still of the simple 'x likes y and finds out y likes x too and bedtime ensues'.

Now I have done longer fic before. 16K of it for my first smutty claus way back in 2011. And even ongoing fics. Though they were more or less the same formula repeated for each chapter.

I did have a point when I started writing this, I am sure. Anyway, I have seen other people in the friends list come up with 12K or 20K pieces for things were i would end up with maybe 1 or 3. So I'm just wondering however to people manage it? Does it take a lot of planning? How does one

Especially I was thinking of UST and slow burning use of it. (for no particular reason, tamlane) how does one right a long fic with UST without action happening? I mean on one level that sounds like my formula but with drawn out lead to up to when a pair actually does it. But I guess what I wonder is how to make it interesting? How does writing longer fic even work? I seem to forgetton.

Thoughts?

Comments

[traintracks.livejournal.com]

Obstacles. I'm probably not the best person to advise on this because I frequently (ask my betas) come up with unrealistic ones -- or the same three for every fic. But I think the trick of length is tension and the trick of tension is giving your pair realistic obstacles to their destination. These can be inner issues -- 'but I'm not supposed to want so-and-so' -- or they can be outside obstacles -- a war breaks out, a friend is vehemently against it, I'm a Pureblood and need an heir, what have you.

But yeah. Obstacles, ftw. :-)

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

My question for you is... how do you get sex to happen in under 5K?

For me, the slow burn is all about raising the stakes, bit by bit. Getting closer and closer to the 'real thing' without going all the way. So I suppose... the trick is to make 'non-action' feel like action. Every thought, every movement, every gesture has to be sexually charged. Characters have to be hyper-aware of each other. They have to really, really want each other. Even better if they're a little unsure of each other. And they have to have something holding them back. Something that keeps them from going all the way. That's my formula, anyway. ;)

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

That's it. Something has to be in the way. Always. We want most keenly, most desperately, what we can't have.

[luna-plath.livejournal.com]

I guess when you're going for longer, plottier fics look to the five act structure for guidance. A lot of people think it's just about the freytag pyramid (rising action, climax, falling action) but I've found that to be way to general and not helpful. Five acts is where it's at! That's what I'm trying to follow with my Jon/Arya fic, with 10 chapters total. If I'm doing something longer than 5k then I write an outline. For the Jon/Arya fic there was a bulleted list of what needed to happen in each chapter, but I don't always break it down that much. It can be as simple as "Harry talks to Ron about X" and then you pick the setting and the tone once you get to it.

[lightofdaye]

IDEK, my characters just sort of like each other in an uncontrollable lust sort of way? which i guess is the inconceivable fantasy element for me?

Or for drabbles any ust can be implied to have happened and been over with already. like in james/dominiques summertime fic. Where its obvious there has been tension and refusals and badgering for sex but it all happen before the fic.

I sort of get what you're saying in theory. but how much that do you preplan? like the situation and specific obstacles. or do you just start writing and suddenly you have 5k or something?

[lightofdaye]

Hmm a scene by scene plan was something I did for that long fic. With each scene just being a sentence or so of what happens.

But i do find a more detailed plan for say the chaptered fics I did on AFF actually didn't help so much. i've got a few stabled together notepad sheets. with things that had to happen in the next like three chapters of 'its not just sex' (covering revised shell cottage and gringotts raid sequences for h/p-AUness) but i've never managed to write that. Like the creativity was drained by writing the plan down.

[lightofdaye]

Well it's definitely good idea. I've sort of got something in mind in a workplace thing. Like a 'i can't shag my secretary thats power abuse and i can't transfer her for no reason either' sort of thing.

[torino10154]

I write short for the most part, only 3 fics over 10K in seven years. LOL

how does one right a long fic with UST without action happening?

See? That right there is why--I despise Jane Austen if that helps you to understand. LOL I recall reading a fic of 80K+ that was just wordswordswordswords. Sure some were pretty words but I wanted to tear my hair. Another fic, it was nearly 300K, and I wanted to scream at all the repetitive and circular internal thoughts going on. "Just blow him already!" is probably not the reaction the author wanted from me during a pivotal sex scene. A 20K PWP is like watching a blowout sporting event. It's almost boring after a while.

I guess I see it as a fallacy that one needs to write MORE to write well. I think the Smutty of yours I just read, the Harry/Luna, was lovely. It could have been longer, sure, but it didn't need to be. Not everyone writes the same way, our brains don't work the same way.

Now, the few longer fics I have done, I let germinate for some time in my mind. I don't plan specific things until I am writing because I might change my mind! So it's just the loosest of outlines, more like a list of "I want to include this idea, that concept", maybe even a snippet of a scene but without assigning them a spot just yet. I do think, for some of us, extensive notes is like writing the fic itself so we basically spend ourselves there and can't get it up for the real thing.

This is actually mostly blather and not helpful. LOL Aren't you glad we're friends? ;)

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

do you just start writing and suddenly you have 5k or something?

LOL. Um, no. I wish.

Yeah, I plan out the scenes. I don't have to worry about obstacles because if I'm writing longer fic, it's probably going to be incest. So the obstacle is the taboo.

But you have to understand that UST is hotter to me than sex. Fooling around is hotter than sex. Not quite having sex is hotter than sex. Wanting to have sex is hotter than sex. The longer that's drawn out, the more I like it. It's not what everyone wants in a longer fic. And I've read plenty of long fics that were sex scene after sex scene, and those work, too, as long as the stakes are continually raised.

ETA: I'm talking strictly about erotica here because I wouldn't have a clue how to write a fic with an actual plot.

[lightofdaye]

Tis not blather, I actually find it interesting and full of useful points. Though it boils down to answer of 'how to do write long fic? don't.'

Which is certainly a valid opinion. I can easily see what you mean about drawing it out to long. That's why the long fic isn't actually set up but four sex scenes. (meant to be distinct in tone) strung together by attempted plot.

Your drabbles are excellent examples of short fic. You have a knack for starting them in medias res sort of 'these people are fucking, what of it?' and it working very well. I was most envious of it when trying to write something for porn sunday because the couples i wanted to write felt like they need establishing more than i wanted to. (cousincest orgies apparently in my mind need no set up?)

I think fics can turn out bad whatever the length but i guess it is each to their own as a writer and a reader.

[torino10154]

To be honest what my opinion really is boils down to, everyone can give you tips and advice but it might not work for you. Of course you should listen, see if you can make changes to your style, or whatever. Perhaps even "study" a couple of fics and try to pinpoint what it is they have that yours don't.

And yes, of course, short can be just as bad as long--there's just less of it. LOL

[luna-plath.livejournal.com]

the creativity was drained by writing the plan down

I understand what you're saying here, I kind of felt that way when I was working on my harryhetbigbang fic (I've been meaning to get back to that for ages) so I left it for a while. I guess you can think of it this way: instead of writing down every scene, just cover the major points that have to happen for the story to make sense, to the point where those events can not be removed.

Another thing that I struggle with, that may effect you as well, is deciding how to end stories. One of my "trademark" tactics is to use an open ending, showing that things are going to turn out more positively or more negatively, but letting the reader fill in the gaps. Eventually I just have to force myself to stop, because I'm constantly wondering "should the end come here?"

[lightofdaye]

heh. Well It may be just be me being paranoid but i'm sure the same sort of scene in other people's hands end up way longer. Yeah incest is the big obstacle alright.

But you have to understand that UST is hotter to me than sex
Gosh really? ;-P That may be why I'm asking. Planning ahead like. That said to me the thing about UST that eventually its going to be resolved right? there's a lot or will they/won't they, and they get interrupted and what not. But in the end, its there to make the actually end sex scene or the more potent for what they've had to get through for it.

I mean UST is hotter to you than sex. But you do still right the resolution and sex. Yo don't right often write lots of ust and then an opening ending.

: I'm talking strictly about erotica here because I wouldn't have a clue how to write a fic with an actual plot.
right with you there. *g* not written none-porn fic for ages.

[lightofdaye]

S'Good advice.:D Thank you.

[lightofdaye]

OH! That Harryhetbigbang was Harry/Pansy wasn't it? Definitely hope you do get back to that one. (no pressure, lol)

I see what uou mean about the plan. I think the reason I prefer short fics is its easy to get a head around the short fic. Some fics I sort of built around a single moment or punchline, and then building from there. Even the long fic 'sub my coke' was based solely around 'i need a threesome how can i get the characters to the point where they would have one?' and the reason that is so long is because I incorporated the second idea for harry/parvati sixth year that i'd had seperately.

Endings are an interesting thing. Because for a lot of short fics can end immediately post-coitally. But unless you do something like the DH epilogue or movie endings where 'they go x character grew up to be an investment banker' All endings have to be open to some extent or another and its hard to know how or when to stop.

[luna-plath.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about the Harry/Pansy fic more and more recently, but I haven't looked at it on like a year lol.

Hm maybe instead of starting with a punchline/line of dialogue you could start with a concept or event?

[tamlane.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think most readers feel cheated if the tension isn't resolved in a manner worthy of the buildup. The higher you raise the stakes, the more you've gotta deliver when it comes to the Big Scene. And that's something I always struggle with. As you know. ;)

[nevrafire.livejournal.com]

I'm very excited to see a long hp fic from you (even if it's High rated- i'm opening up to them a little- but only the promising ones an your stuff always delivers)


can't really give advice on writing super long stuff- as i never done it.

but I think, maybe do it a little like an ensemble piece?- the focus is that one pairing but add a cast of supportive characters on how they deal with the main pairing (without getting distracted from the main pair)

like, dunno, if it's Harry/demelza (that's the first thing that came to mind when you said guy/secretary- it's not a request for demelza I Swear) maybe with a little side of Ron feeling conflicted about unresolved feelings he had about harry and ginny breaking up and harry moving on, but at the same time trying to be supportive because harry's his best friend and he deserves to be happy.


that sort of thing.

that should fill up pages and add a more-layed conflict.